Mike White's fine HBO Max streaming series exposes the long-covered up reality of autogynephilia that has covertly driven so much transmania over the last 12 years.
Exactly. Wear what you like. Don’t ask us to participate by referring to you as “she” and go lecture your fellow men in the men’s room about being kind about it.
Hey Steve, you would advise confused trans girls they are being influenced by a male fetish. But long before the trans craze psychoanalytic theory proposed the concept of penis envy and male identifications in little girls. Might not these girls be enacting their very own autophalliphillic fetish?
Hi Kathleen. You are factually incorrect by a long way. Just as you can’t find a fever if you don’t take a temperature, the early literature on fetishes and perversions largely focused on men. That doesn’t mean women don’t have sexual object fetishes and perversions. Shoes, horses, body types, clothing, specific fixed sexual scenarios and practices, convict fantasies (and marriages), BDSM and on and on. Freud actually proposed that many women were “polymorphous perverse”, meaning their libido was especially (relative to men) able to morphed annd shaped into attachments with a wider range of sexual interests and activities.
No women have shoe fetishes except in jokes about shopping. Lots of men do. Being horse crazy is not a fetish. Lots of men fuck animals. Liking certain body types is not a fetish, in men or women: it is totally normal. Fixating obsessively on a particular body part is 100% a male thing. Getting a crush on a handsome murderer who is featured in the news is pathetic and gross, but not a fetish. Women marry guys like the Menendez brothers. Weird and sad but not a fetish. No women write fan mail to fat bald killers just because they are killers. Lots of men are serial killers.
The equivalences you wish existed do not exist. Women are not weird in these ways that men are weird.
You clearly don’t know the definition of a perversion or a fetish and I’m quite confident you don’t know all the women in the world or the literature and facts on this topic. You could look it all up with the tiniest effort you areas of making ludicrous and patently false assertions. Leaving out all the animal fuckers for a moment, who do you think all those “weird” men (those that are heterosexual anyway) are doing their perverse enactments with? Every sadist needs a masochist.
It’s fascinating to me to find women here that deny documented facts about women’s sexuality. I guess repression didn’t end with the Victorian era. You are all certainly entitled to speak to your own absent sexual features to the extent your consciousness and reporting can be trusted, but you are not entitled to overturn reality. I’m confident you have zero familiarity with the actual literature, but do yourself a favor. If you have AI, ask the question “rank by frequency the most prevalent fetishes and perversions of women”. My search listed 8 categories in detail with number one being BDSM fantasies and enactments and number two being exhibitionism and voyeurism and number three being the eroticism of feet and shoes.
Sorry I put more faith in my long life as a woman along my many friends & relatives than in AI. Who knows what it’s been trained on? Porn written by men about women with fetishes?
I’m sorry too. Seems daft and grandiose. So if a man has no fetishes or perversions himself and none of his buddies have disclosed fetishes and perversions to him, is he also entitled to deny the documented facts, literature, history. Parenthetically, I am a practicing psychoanalyst. So I’d also have to deny decades of actual first hand clinical observation to join in your mysterious denial of reality.
Maybe we can ask Steve to do an analysis on the preponderance of women watching fetish porn? It’s an interesting topic, but I’m not sure I know the demarcation between fetish and a sexual preference. Some are obvious like feet or spandex, but what about BBW or watching the tv series Outlander?
The dude in Shades of Gray was handsome, rich, and ultimately tender, loving, and utterly devoted to the heroine above all other women. Having erotic fantasies is not fetishism; I suspect the whips and chains played the role of reassuring the readership they were specially adventurous ultramodern sophisticates, not women reading a Harlequin novel.
It kind of sounds like the difference between erotic fantasies and fetishes is that women have erotic fantasies, while men have fetishes. Maybe this will help Ketanji Brown Jackson figure out what a woman is.
The most interesting part of this thread to me is to find two women who deny the established and documented facts of female sexuality. You are both certainly entitled to speak to your own absence of sexual interests or fantasies, but your denial about the entire documented inner world of the rest of the women in the world is a non-starter. Interesting as hell for sure, but doesn’t weigh in much on this issue.
Sexual interests and fantasies are not fetishes. It is you who are confused.
Consider men who are collectors (and it is almost always men who are) and then think of the subset who are obsessive completionists, who spend hours of their lives thinking of new ways to more perfectly catalogue their collections of (some dumb shit) and really get upset about missing elements or disorder in their current array and who will pour crazy money into the hobby. This latter impulse is the same impulse at work in fetishism. It is squirrelly-brain object obsession, whether not sexual or sexual. Women, whatever their faults, don’t have this one.
False construction on your part. No one has equated fantasy with fetish besides you. You create a false dichotomy to advance a false argument. Again Kathleen, you have no clue what you are talking about. But don’t let that interfere with your certainty. Ignorance and confidence are a potent combination.
This all started with the question of transgenderism in men vs women. Do you view transgenders as a fantasy or a fetish or a perversion? Is it a fetish for men but a “fantasy” for women or the same for both? If it’s a fetish for men but not for women please explain why. If it’s a fetish for both then please account for your assertion that only men are fetishists.
Why am I not surprised by the Wikipedia bio of Mike White...
"He is the son of Lyla Lee (née Loehr), a fundraising executive, and former executive director of the Pasadena Playhouse, and James Melville "Mel" White, a former speechwriter and ghostwriter for Religious Right figures such as Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. His father came out as gay in 1994 and became an activist.... White is a vegan and lives in Santa Monica with his partner, Josh. He also owns a house in Kauai. He is openly bisexual."
Each season of White Lotus contains some pretty gross sex, naturally. That said, the show is visually pleasing and the most recent season was pretty fun overall.
I'm sure White is not the only person in Hollywood to be interested in some pretty gross sex, but none of them had the courage in the decade since Bruce Jenner to reveal the ex-men's secret. In the several weeks since, the NYT still hasn't had the courage to mention the AGP word in its voluminous coverage of White Lotus.
Maybe he didn't know it was a secret. The monologue sounded so real it's either the writer's internal thoughts, or a shocking thing a friend confessed to him.
Half the page hits for it probably have your name in them. Do you think they want to encourage people to search? They might learn something unapproved.
Maybe not being all that interested in women helps Mike White stay more objective in his writing about sex differences? For example probably the biggest crowd-pleasing moment in his “School of Rock” script was when his beta-male character finally stands up to Sarah Silverman’s shrewish girlfriend, probably not a part a straight guy with a girlfriend would have written in 2004.
In the end, there are certain behaviors that are best suppressed for the good of society. I don’t care how badly certain people want to openly live out their supposed identities because it makes them happy because the harm on others in indulging it outweighs their self centered demands.
I used to enjoy the Japanese kids' cartoon "Crayon Shin Chan." Every year or two they would release a movie and the villains seemed to be over the top ex-men every time.
Came across another ex-man that fits the stereotype while listening to an interview given by the author of this book in which the interviewer briefly mentioned it
Becoming Westerly: The Transformation of Surfing Champion Peter Drouyn Into Westerly Windina
This seems like the crowd to ask, since I can't figure it out anywhere else in the reviews: Why did the dad spare the youngest from the poisoned coladas? Because he complained the least about material things? The Shakespeare tragedy of the father almost killing the one he wanted to spare was just too much obvious Shakespeare to me :)
Belinda turned out to be just as awful as Greg. Disappointed I didn't see that coming.
There is another aspect of this that Steve sort of touches on, but leaves out. The ladies who used to do that “Special Place in Hell” podcast talked about this a bit. If we accept that autogynephilia is real and explains the majority of activist male transgenderism, then these guys basically get off on being perceived as women. They got sexually aroused by being in women’s spaces, by being referred to by female pronouns, etc.
So effectively these fetishist men are conscripting the rest of society to participate in their fetish. Imagine if the foot fetish guys said the rest of were morally and in some cases legally obligated to let them suck our toes. That’s what this is like. People get off on lots of different and to my sensibility odd things. And if they can find a willing partner to go along, go to it! But they have zero right to enlist the rest of the world to participate in their fetish.
This is on point. We don't entertain exhibitionists performing in public and we don't allow voyeurs to peer into people's bedrooms. The validity of this analogy helps explain why the categorization of AGP as a fetish is unacceptable to the ex-men and their advocates.
A very small percentage. I have seen a range of numbers given but not above 15%
Not the least of their crimes is their instance that they have lady dicks that everyone especially lesbians should accept but children need surgery, girls to have their breasts removed and boys like Jazz Jennings to be castrated. The adult male AGPs are horrible people.
Exactly. Wear what you like. Don’t ask us to participate by referring to you as “she” and go lecture your fellow men in the men’s room about being kind about it.
Your efforts are paying off.
Yes they're smart, but given their reliance on Judith Butler one has to wonder just how smart they really are.
Michel Foucault would have come up with a better explanation.
Hey Steve, you would advise confused trans girls they are being influenced by a male fetish. But long before the trans craze psychoanalytic theory proposed the concept of penis envy and male identifications in little girls. Might not these girls be enacting their very own autophalliphillic fetish?
Look up the incidence of fetishism of ANY type. Men have fetishes. Women don’t.
Hi Kathleen. You are factually incorrect by a long way. Just as you can’t find a fever if you don’t take a temperature, the early literature on fetishes and perversions largely focused on men. That doesn’t mean women don’t have sexual object fetishes and perversions. Shoes, horses, body types, clothing, specific fixed sexual scenarios and practices, convict fantasies (and marriages), BDSM and on and on. Freud actually proposed that many women were “polymorphous perverse”, meaning their libido was especially (relative to men) able to morphed annd shaped into attachments with a wider range of sexual interests and activities.
I am not wrong no matter how much you make up invisible potential statistics no one can see and imaginary scenarios.
Huh? Makes zero sense. None of the scenarios described are a product of a statistic or my imagination.
No women have shoe fetishes except in jokes about shopping. Lots of men do. Being horse crazy is not a fetish. Lots of men fuck animals. Liking certain body types is not a fetish, in men or women: it is totally normal. Fixating obsessively on a particular body part is 100% a male thing. Getting a crush on a handsome murderer who is featured in the news is pathetic and gross, but not a fetish. Women marry guys like the Menendez brothers. Weird and sad but not a fetish. No women write fan mail to fat bald killers just because they are killers. Lots of men are serial killers.
The equivalences you wish existed do not exist. Women are not weird in these ways that men are weird.
" No women write fan mail to fat bald killers just because they are killers. Lots of men are serial killers."
Well, that tears it. No remaining reasons for me to become a serial killer.
You clearly don’t know the definition of a perversion or a fetish and I’m quite confident you don’t know all the women in the world or the literature and facts on this topic. You could look it all up with the tiniest effort you areas of making ludicrous and patently false assertions. Leaving out all the animal fuckers for a moment, who do you think all those “weird” men (those that are heterosexual anyway) are doing their perverse enactments with? Every sadist needs a masochist.
I wouldn’t say that lots of men fuck animals. Some men fuck animals. A small number of men fuck animals. It’s very much a niche interest.
I agree with Kathleen here. I’ve never heard of a woman with a sex fetish. We are women, we know more about it than you.
It’s fascinating to me to find women here that deny documented facts about women’s sexuality. I guess repression didn’t end with the Victorian era. You are all certainly entitled to speak to your own absent sexual features to the extent your consciousness and reporting can be trusted, but you are not entitled to overturn reality. I’m confident you have zero familiarity with the actual literature, but do yourself a favor. If you have AI, ask the question “rank by frequency the most prevalent fetishes and perversions of women”. My search listed 8 categories in detail with number one being BDSM fantasies and enactments and number two being exhibitionism and voyeurism and number three being the eroticism of feet and shoes.
Sorry I put more faith in my long life as a woman along my many friends & relatives than in AI. Who knows what it’s been trained on? Porn written by men about women with fetishes?
I’m sorry too. Seems daft and grandiose. So if a man has no fetishes or perversions himself and none of his buddies have disclosed fetishes and perversions to him, is he also entitled to deny the documented facts, literature, history. Parenthetically, I am a practicing psychoanalyst. So I’d also have to deny decades of actual first hand clinical observation to join in your mysterious denial of reality.
Maybe we can ask Steve to do an analysis on the preponderance of women watching fetish porn? It’s an interesting topic, but I’m not sure I know the demarcation between fetish and a sexual preference. Some are obvious like feet or spandex, but what about BBW or watching the tv series Outlander?
With more thought I’m thinking a fetish is something that has absolutely no evolutionary value, rather it is a malfunction of the wiring in the brain.
I’m not saying I disagree, but who bought all those copies of Shades of Gray?
Porn isn’t a fetish.
The dude in Shades of Gray was handsome, rich, and ultimately tender, loving, and utterly devoted to the heroine above all other women. Having erotic fantasies is not fetishism; I suspect the whips and chains played the role of reassuring the readership they were specially adventurous ultramodern sophisticates, not women reading a Harlequin novel.
You seem very familiar....
It kind of sounds like the difference between erotic fantasies and fetishes is that women have erotic fantasies, while men have fetishes. Maybe this will help Ketanji Brown Jackson figure out what a woman is.
The most interesting part of this thread to me is to find two women who deny the established and documented facts of female sexuality. You are both certainly entitled to speak to your own absence of sexual interests or fantasies, but your denial about the entire documented inner world of the rest of the women in the world is a non-starter. Interesting as hell for sure, but doesn’t weigh in much on this issue.
Sexual interests and fantasies are not fetishes. It is you who are confused.
Consider men who are collectors (and it is almost always men who are) and then think of the subset who are obsessive completionists, who spend hours of their lives thinking of new ways to more perfectly catalogue their collections of (some dumb shit) and really get upset about missing elements or disorder in their current array and who will pour crazy money into the hobby. This latter impulse is the same impulse at work in fetishism. It is squirrelly-brain object obsession, whether not sexual or sexual. Women, whatever their faults, don’t have this one.
Have you ever looked into the market for Barbie Dolls?
False construction on your part. No one has equated fantasy with fetish besides you. You create a false dichotomy to advance a false argument. Again Kathleen, you have no clue what you are talking about. But don’t let that interfere with your certainty. Ignorance and confidence are a potent combination.
This all started with the question of transgenderism in men vs women. Do you view transgenders as a fantasy or a fetish or a perversion? Is it a fetish for men but a “fantasy” for women or the same for both? If it’s a fetish for men but not for women please explain why. If it’s a fetish for both then please account for your assertion that only men are fetishists.
In other words, Sodomy.
Why am I not surprised by the Wikipedia bio of Mike White...
"He is the son of Lyla Lee (née Loehr), a fundraising executive, and former executive director of the Pasadena Playhouse, and James Melville "Mel" White, a former speechwriter and ghostwriter for Religious Right figures such as Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. His father came out as gay in 1994 and became an activist.... White is a vegan and lives in Santa Monica with his partner, Josh. He also owns a house in Kauai. He is openly bisexual."
Each season of White Lotus contains some pretty gross sex, naturally. That said, the show is visually pleasing and the most recent season was pretty fun overall.
I'm sure White is not the only person in Hollywood to be interested in some pretty gross sex, but none of them had the courage in the decade since Bruce Jenner to reveal the ex-men's secret. In the several weeks since, the NYT still hasn't had the courage to mention the AGP word in its voluminous coverage of White Lotus.
Maybe he didn't know it was a secret. The monologue sounded so real it's either the writer's internal thoughts, or a shocking thing a friend confessed to him.
Mike White is a big fan of Camille Paglia and of "Red Scare."
I'm not overly familiar with either. Does this mean he should have known it was verboten zu sprechen?
Half the page hits for it probably have your name in them. Do you think they want to encourage people to search? They might learn something unapproved.
Maybe not being all that interested in women helps Mike White stay more objective in his writing about sex differences? For example probably the biggest crowd-pleasing moment in his “School of Rock” script was when his beta-male character finally stands up to Sarah Silverman’s shrewish girlfriend, probably not a part a straight guy with a girlfriend would have written in 2004.
In the end, there are certain behaviors that are best suppressed for the good of society. I don’t care how badly certain people want to openly live out their supposed identities because it makes them happy because the harm on others in indulging it outweighs their self centered demands.
I used to enjoy the Japanese kids' cartoon "Crayon Shin Chan." Every year or two they would release a movie and the villains seemed to be over the top ex-men every time.
It was an effective formula.
They made really good evil villains!
Trannies might be easy to support if you don’t know any.
There are others noticing:
https://europeanconservative.com/articles/commentary/europeans-transgender-ideology/
This short article provides quite a list of examples of trans-associated civilization-wrecking.
"As opposed to the incredibly intellectually sophisticated conventional wisdom of Assigned Wrongly at Birth?"
Hey, you look down at the baby and you see a little cock. It's a mistake any doctor could make.
Came across another ex-man that fits the stereotype while listening to an interview given by the author of this book in which the interviewer briefly mentioned it
Becoming Westerly: The Transformation of Surfing Champion Peter Drouyn Into Westerly Windina
Book by Jamie Brisick
I used to drive a taxi in NYC in the 60s. Late at night.
Trust me, humans are capable of a lot of seriously creepy fetishes.
Luckily, the seats were vinyl.
This seems like the crowd to ask, since I can't figure it out anywhere else in the reviews: Why did the dad spare the youngest from the poisoned coladas? Because he complained the least about material things? The Shakespeare tragedy of the father almost killing the one he wanted to spare was just too much obvious Shakespeare to me :)
Belinda turned out to be just as awful as Greg. Disappointed I didn't see that coming.
he told the dad he'd be ok being poor
There is another aspect of this that Steve sort of touches on, but leaves out. The ladies who used to do that “Special Place in Hell” podcast talked about this a bit. If we accept that autogynephilia is real and explains the majority of activist male transgenderism, then these guys basically get off on being perceived as women. They got sexually aroused by being in women’s spaces, by being referred to by female pronouns, etc.
So effectively these fetishist men are conscripting the rest of society to participate in their fetish. Imagine if the foot fetish guys said the rest of were morally and in some cases legally obligated to let them suck our toes. That’s what this is like. People get off on lots of different and to my sensibility odd things. And if they can find a willing partner to go along, go to it! But they have zero right to enlist the rest of the world to participate in their fetish.
This is on point. We don't entertain exhibitionists performing in public and we don't allow voyeurs to peer into people's bedrooms. The validity of this analogy helps explain why the categorization of AGP as a fetish is unacceptable to the ex-men and their advocates.
I think it’s a huge part of it. I think a smaller but still real part is that acknowledging that it’s just a pretend game ruins the thrill of it.
What percentage of these autogynephiliacs have their penises surgically removed?
A very small percentage. I have seen a range of numbers given but not above 15%
Not the least of their crimes is their instance that they have lady dicks that everyone especially lesbians should accept but children need surgery, girls to have their breasts removed and boys like Jazz Jennings to be castrated. The adult male AGPs are horrible people.
Thanks. That fact needs to be more widely publicized.