42 Comments
User's avatar
George Kocan's avatar

"Carmen" has an American version played by an all Negro cast. I think it is pretty good. I also think I have figured out pop culture. Its project is to invert all values as an indirect war against Christianity.

Expand full comment
Ralph L's avatar

Carmen Jones, originally on Broadway with words by Hammerstein, became a film directed by Otto Preminger. Lefty singer Harry Belafonte wasn't good enough and had to be dubbed, as was everyone but Pearl Bailey. I enjoyed it.

Expand full comment
ScarletNumber's avatar

I suppose in the days of de facto (and de jure) segregation all-black versions of popular plays were a thing. Two of Neil Simon's plays (The Odd Couple and Barefoot in the Park) have all-black versions as well as Tennessee Williams' Cat on a Hot Tin Roof with James Earl Jones as Big Daddy, Phylicia Rashad as Big Mama, and Terrence Howard as Brick

Expand full comment
Steve Sailer's avatar

Opera has long had relatively colorblind casting, much like the Los Angeles Dodgers aren't all locally-recruited surfer dudes and cholos, but instead are chosen from all over on baseball talent. For example, in this production of Fra Diavolo, the best voice in the show belongs to the black soprano playing the ingenue, the inn-keeper's daughter. Granted, in the Italian countryside in 1806 there were few blacks, but then there weren't a lot of singing bandits either, so demanding historical accuracy from an opera is a losing game.

They cast a black baritone-bass as the ingenue's father, the innkeeper. I rather like that logic: don't worry about historical accuracy, but do worry some about simple genealogical accuracy. If your leading lady is clearly some particular race, try to cast her blood relations in the lesser roles to be plausible looking.

Similarly, it helped that because the goofy plot had the Italian bandit leader getting away with pretending to be an English marquis, they cast a 6'2" tenor who looks a lot like Benedict Cumberbatch.

On the other hand, if it were 1975 and you had the budget to cast Luciano Pavarotti as the fake English milord, yeah, sure, well, the audience is just going to have to pretend that the 300 pound Italian legend looks like Errol Flynn while glorying in Pavarotti's singing. Singing comes first in opera, realism 17th.

Expand full comment
Hyperpsychology's avatar

So close, media is an inversion of good things to create plot.

Expand full comment
Erik's avatar

Camille Saint-Saëns (b. 1835), Hector Berlioz (b. 1803)

Expand full comment
prosa123's avatar

Pacific Opera Project has jumped onto the DIE bandwagon:

https://www.pacificoperaproject.com/our-story

I got a laugh out of this line:

“ Challenging our inherent biases and organizational structural barriers in order to holistically diversify POP's stage performers, Board of Directors, volunteers, audiences, and administration.”

Expand full comment
Almost Missouri's avatar

Here is Murray's "Human Accomplishment" list of French composers born before Appomattox, for those who want to explore what Americans have been missing. (Auber is #15.) Probably the only name Americans recognize before Debussy besides Bizet is Berlioz and maybe Saint-Saëns. Most probably have heard of Rousseau too but didn't know he wrote music. (Also, he's Swiss.)

name . . . birth year . . . index score

Debussy, Claude . . . 1862 . . . 45.36

Berlioz, Hector . . . 1803 . . . 40.60

Rameau, Jean . . . 1683 . . . 21.96

Josquin des Prez . . . 1440 . . . 16.98

Fauré, Gabriel . . . 1845 . . . 13.31

Gounod, Charles . . . 1818 . . . 13.01

Couperin, François . . . 1668 . . . 12.86

Saint-Saëns, Camille . . . 1835 . . . 12.67

Machaut, Guillaume de . . . 1300 . . . 11.79

Bizet, Georges . . . 1838 . . . 10.32

Indy, Vincent d’ . . . 1851 . . . 9.24

Massenet, Jules . . . 1842 . . . 8.53

Rousseau, Jean-Jacques . . . 1712 . . . 7.59

Pérotin . . . 1090 . . . 6.30

Auber, Daniel . . . 1782 . . . 5.32

Janequin, Clément . . . 1475 . . . 5.30

Méhul, Étienne . . . 1763 . . . 5.19

Chabrier, Alexis . . . 1841 . . . 5.01

Boieldieu, Adrien . . . 1775 . . . 4.92

Leoninus . . . 1070 . . . 4.91

Charpentier, Marc . . . 1643 . . . 4.26

Adam de la Halle . . . 1244 . . . 4.12

Lesueur, Jean . . . 1760 . . . 3.81

Goudimel, Claude . . . 1510 . . . 3.47

Philidor, François . . . 1726 . . . 3.31

Chambonnèires, Jacques de . . . 1601 . . . 3.28

Campra, André . . . 1660 . . . 3.25

Arcadelt, Jacques . . . 1505 . . . 3.24

Le Jeune, Claude . . . 1528 . . . 3.21

Chausson, Ernest . . . 1855 . . . 3.17

Thomas, Ambroise . . . 1811 . . . 3.14

Monsigny, Pierre . . . 1729 . . . 2.97

Duparc, Henri . . . 1848 . . . 2.95

Cambert, Robert . . . 1628 . . . 2.90

Verdelot, Philippe . . . 1495 . . . 2.80

Sermisy, Claudin de . . . 1490 . . . 2.69

Mouton, Jean . . . 1459 . . . 2.64

Couperin, Louis . . . 1626 . . . 2.54

Certon, Pierre . . . 1510 . . . 2.40

Delibes, Clément . . . 1836 . . . 2.39

Charpentier, Gustave . . . 1860 . . . 2.25

Hérold, Louis . . . 1791 . . . 2.08

Compère, Loyset . . . 1450 . . . 1.74

Mauduit, Jacques . . . 1557 . . . 1.66

Costelely, Guillaume . . . 1530 . . . 1.66

Bruneau, Alfred . . . 1857 . . . 1.64

Grenon, Nicolas . . . 1380 . . . 1.53

Benevoli, Orazio . . . 1605 . . . 1.52

Clérambault, Louis . . . 1676 . . . 1.48

David, Félicien . . . 1810 . . . 1.44

D’Anglebert, Jean . . . 1635 . . . 1.42

Berton, Henri . . . 1767 . . . 1.41

Dalayrac, Nicolas . . . 1753 . . . 1.39

Bourgeois, Loys . . . 1510 . . . 1.37

Reyer, Ernest . . . 1823 . . . 1.34

Gaveaux, Pierre . . . 1760 . . . 1.25

Boësset, Antoine de . . . 1586 . . . 1.19

Catel, Charles . . . 1773 . . . 1.18

Destouches, André . . . 1672 . . . 1.15

Du Caurroy, Eustache . . . 1549 . . . 1.06

Besard, Jean . . . 1567 . . . 1.00

Carpentras . . . 1470 . . . 1.00

Dandrieu, Jean . . . 1682 . . . 1.00

Daquin, Louis . . . 1694 . . . 1.00

Isouard, Nicolas . . . 1775 . . . 1.00

Lambert, Michel . . . 1610 . . . 1.00

Lecocq, Charles . . . 1832 . . . 1.00

Thibaut de Champagne . . . 1201 . . . 1.00

Titelouze, Jean . . . 1563 . . . 1.00

Expand full comment
Terry Quinn's avatar

Perhaps Gluck & Meyerbeer, though German, & worked primarily in France, ought to be included. Berlioz attributed much of his inspiration to Gluck. Fun list , though. Might read the book.

Expand full comment
Bizarro Man's avatar

You left out Eric Satie! Quel dumage!

Expand full comment
Terry Quinn's avatar

Oui!

Expand full comment
Almost Missouri's avatar

Satie was born after Appomattox. But yes, he is probably a recognized name by Americans.

Expand full comment
Steve Wood's avatar

Satie is famous, but if we're including born-post-1865 French composers, Maurice Ravel may be the best known. His "Boléro" premiered in 1928, though, so perhaps he is too modern to compare to the others.

Expand full comment
Almost Missouri's avatar

If the list were to include post-Appomattox French composers, Ravel, Messiaen, Milhaud, Poulenc, and Varèse, would all pop in above Satie.

Expand full comment
Almost Missouri's avatar

I used Murray's "ethnicity" flag for Frenchness.

So maybe we have a jus soli vs. jus sanguinis contest.

Expand full comment
Ralph L's avatar

Pole F. Chopin also worked mostly in France, enough that no one knows how the Poles pronounce or spell his name.

Expand full comment
Steve Sailer's avatar

Berlioz was also a prolific music critic for the Paris newspapers, so he gets quoted a lot in music history works about the Germans and Italians.

Expand full comment
Soothsayer's avatar

Gounod and Massenet are well known

Expand full comment
Charlotte Allen's avatar

Jean-Baptiste Lully (although born in Italy) should be on the list alongside Charpentier. Also Leonin, who invented polyphony during the 12th century--a century which, by the way, belonged to the French. Between 1100 and 1200 the French also invented Gothic architecture, Scholastic philosophy, "modern" stage drama, and King Arthur as a literary figure.

Expand full comment
Almost Missouri's avatar

Since you and Terry Quinn feel strongly about it, here is the 'jus soli' list of pre-Appomattox musical talent who worked in France irrespective of ethnicity.

The big new interlopers are Chopin, Lully, Meyerbeer, Cherubini, and some Flemish guys that Americans probably didn't realize were not technically French.

Note that 27% of the 'jus soli' list is non-French (31% non-French by Index Score). France being the center of culture had its perks.

Name . . . Birth . . . Index . . . BirthCountry . . . Ethnicity

Debussy, Claude . . . 1862 . . . 45.36 . . . France . . . French

Berlioz, Hector . . . 1803 . . . 40.60 . . . France . . . French

Chopin, Fryderyk . . . 1810 . . . 31.77 . . . Poland . . . Polish

Lully, Jean . . . 1632 . . . 24.34 . . . Italy . . . Italian

Rameau, Jean . . . 1683 . . . 21.96 . . . France . . . French

Josquin des Prez . . . 1440 . . . 16.98 . . . France . . . French

Franck, César . . . 1822 . . . 15.24 . . . Belgium . . . Flemish

Meyerbeer, Giacomo . . . 1791 . . . 14.14 . . . Germany . . . Jewish

Fauré, Gabriel . . . 1845 . . . 13.31 . . . France . . . French

Gounod, Charles . . . 1818 . . . 13.01 . . . France . . . French

Couperin, François . . . 1668 . . . 12.86 . . . France . . . French

Saint-Saëns, Camille . . . 1835 . . . 12.67 . . . France . . . French

Machaut, Guillaume de . . . 1300 . . . 11.79 . . . France . . . French

Bizet, Georges . . . 1838 . . . 10.32 . . . France . . . French

Cherubini, Luigi . . . 1760 . . . 10.22 . . . Italy . . . Italian

Indy, Vincent d’ . . . 1851 . . . 9.24 . . . France . . . French

Massenet, Jules . . . 1842 . . . 8.53 . . . France . . . French

Ockeghem, Johannes . . . 1410 . . . 8.45 . . . France . . . Flemish

Rousseau, Jean-Jacques . . . 1712 . . . 7.59 . . . Switzerland . . . French

Pérotin . . . 1090 . . . 6.30 . . . France . . . French

Grétry, André . . . 1741 . . . 6.08 . . . Belgium . . . Flemish

Offenbach, Jacques . . . 1819 . . . 5.70 . . . Germany . . . Jewish

Auber, Daniel . . . 1782 . . . 5.32 . . . France . . . French

Janequin, Clément . . . 1475 . . . 5.30 . . . France . . . French

Méhul, Étienne . . . 1763 . . . 5.19 . . . France . . . French

Chabrier, Alexis . . . 1841 . . . 5.01 . . . France . . . French

Boieldieu, Adrien . . . 1775 . . . 4.92 . . . France . . . French

Leoninus . . . 1070 . . . 4.91 . . . France . . . French

Halévy, Fromental . . . 1799 . . . 4.38 . . . France . . . Jewish

Charpentier, Marc . . . 1643 . . . 4.26 . . . France . . . French

Gossec, François . . . 1734 . . . 4.14 . . . France . . . Flemish

Adam de la Halle . . . 1244 . . . 4.12 . . . France . . . French

Dukas, Paul . . . 1865 . . . 3.96 . . . France . . . Jewish

Lesueur, Jean . . . 1760 . . . 3.81 . . . France . . . French

Goudimel, Claude . . . 1510 . . . 3.47 . . . France . . . French

Philidor, François . . . 1726 . . . 3.31 . . . France . . . French

Chambonnèires, Jacques de . . . 1601 . . . 3.28 . . . France . . . French

Campra, André . . . 1660 . . . 3.25 . . . France . . . French

Le Jeune, Claude . . . 1528 . . . 3.21 . . . France . . . French

Boito, Arrigo . . . 1842 . . . 3.20 . . . Italy . . . Italian

Chausson, Ernest . . . 1855 . . . 3.17 . . . France . . . French

Thomas, Ambroise . . . 1811 . . . 3.14 . . . France . . . French

Brumel, Antoine . . . 1460 . . . 3.12 . . . France . . . Dutch

Monsigny, Pierre . . . 1729 . . . 2.97 . . . France . . . French

Schobert, Johann . . . 1735 . . . 2.96 . . . Germany . . . Germanic

Duparc, Henri . . . 1848 . . . 2.95 . . . France . . . French

Cambert, Robert . . . 1628 . . . 2.90 . . . France . . . French

Lalo, Édouard . . . 1823 . . . 2.79 . . . France . . . Flemish

Adam, Adolphe . . . 1803 . . . 2.73 . . . France . . . Jewish

Sermisy, Claudin de . . . 1490 . . . 2.69 . . . France . . . French

Mouton, Jean . . . 1459 . . . 2.64 . . . France . . . French

Couperin, Louis . . . 1626 . . . 2.54 . . . France . . . French

Reicha, Antoine . . . 1770 . . . 2.43 . . . Czech . . . Czech

Certon, Pierre . . . 1510 . . . 2.40 . . . France . . . French

Delibes, Clément . . . 1836 . . . 2.39 . . . France . . . French

Charpentier, Gustave . . . 1860 . . . 2.25 . . . France . . . French

Crécquillon, Thomas . . . 1480 . . . 2.24 . . . Belgium . . . Flemish

Hérold, Louis . . . 1791 . . . 2.08 . . . France . . . French

Agricola, Alexander . . . 1446 . . . 2.02 . . . Belgium . . . Flemish

Flotow, Friedrich von . . . 1812 . . . 2.01 . . . Germany . . . Germanic

Févin, Antoine de . . . 1470 . . . 1.79 . . . France . . . Dutch

Mauduit, Jacques . . . 1557 . . . 1.66 . . . France . . . French

Costelely, Guillaume . . . 1530 . . . 1.66 . . . France . . . French

Bruneau, Alfred . . . 1857 . . . 1.64 . . . France . . . French

Grenon, Nicolas . . . 1380 . . . 1.53 . . . France . . . French

Clérambault, Louis . . . 1676 . . . 1.48 . . . France . . . French

David, Félicien . . . 1810 . . . 1.44 . . . France . . . French

D’Anglebert, Jean . . . 1635 . . . 1.42 . . . France . . . French

Berton, Henri . . . 1767 . . . 1.41 . . . France . . . French

Dalayrac, Nicolas . . . 1753 . . . 1.39 . . . France . . . French

Bourgeois, Loys . . . 1510 . . . 1.37 . . . France . . . French

Reyer, Ernest . . . 1823 . . . 1.34 . . . France . . . French

Gaveaux, Pierre . . . 1760 . . . 1.25 . . . France . . . French

Boësset, Antoine de . . . 1586 . . . 1.19 . . . France . . . French

Catel, Charles . . . 1773 . . . 1.18 . . . France . . . French

Destouches, André . . . 1672 . . . 1.15 . . . France . . . French

Stamitz, Carl . . . 1745 . . . 1.12 . . . Germany . . . Germanic

Du Mont, Henri . . . 1610 . . . 1.10 . . . Belgium . . . Flemish

Du Caurroy, Eustache . . . 1549 . . . 1.06 . . . France . . . French

Duni, Egidio . . . 1709 . . . 1.03 . . . Italy . . . Italian

Carpentras . . . 1470 . . . 1.00 . . . France . . . French

Dandrieu, Jean . . . 1682 . . . 1.00 . . . France . . . French

Daquin, Louis . . . 1694 . . . 1.00 . . . France . . . French

Isouard, Nicolas . . . 1775 . . . 1.00 . . . France . . . French

Lambert, Michel . . . 1610 . . . 1.00 . . . France . . . French

Lecocq, Charles . . . 1832 . . . 1.00 . . . France . . . French

Thibaut de Champagne . . . 1201 . . . 1.00 . . . France . . . French

Titelouze, Jean . . . 1563 . . . 1.00 . . . France . . . French

Expand full comment
Acilius's avatar

I agree that French music is its own thing. When I was a teenager, I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how that worked. I could see that Francois Couperin, who died in 1733, had started a lineage that led to the twentieth century French composers I so admired, but I didn't have a strong enough background in theory and composition to produce explanations for what was going on. I never got beyond, "Well, just listen to this, you'll hear the difference!"

Expand full comment
ScarletNumber's avatar

I know this is not primarily a sports blog, but I enjoy those diversions when they come. I would enjoy a post about this year's MLB MVP vote where both leagues had a repeat winner for the first time ever

Expand full comment
Steve Sailer's avatar

Shohei Ohtani and Aaron Judge are really, really good.

Expand full comment
ScarletNumber's avatar

If 10 percent of the AL voters had switched their votes, the award would have gone to Cal Raleigh. I will say that it's more interesting when an award is up for debate rather than simply going to the player with the highest WAR. The last time we had a close one was the 2021 NL when Bryce Harper (PHI) received 17 first-place votes (and 10 for second place) while Juan Soto (WAS) received 6 (and 14) even though Soto had the higher WAR 7.3 vs 5.9. Showing how long ago 2021 was, for Soto that was literally three teams ago

Expand full comment
Craig in Maine's avatar

I'm probably reacting to the discomfort of living through the Dodger's hitting droughts...especially with runners in scoring position. Will Smith seems to know when to swing for a hit vs. a"hero" swing.

Expand full comment
Craig in Maine's avatar

I’d like to see Ohtani purposely shorten and flatten his swing to reduce his strikeouts and hit for average instead of home runs. Judge’s ability to do both is extraordinary.

Expand full comment
The Last Real Calvinist's avatar

I don't know about this. I looked up SO's numbers, and he hit .282 this past year, and has averaged .282 over his career. His OPS this past year was 1.014 (which is certainly MVP level), while his career OPS is .957.

Just putting those numbers together, it suggests that, since coming into MLB, Ohtani has been able to increase his power while maintaining his batting average. Seems like a successful outcome to me, not to mention the multiple MVPs, WS wins, etc.

I agree it's hard to believe Judge hits for the average he does considering his height.

He's like the Randy Johnson of hitters, i.e. in being a very tall player who flashed huge potential for quite a while, but bloomed relatively late. Judge didn't really get started in MLB until he was 25, when he had a fantastic rookie season. But then he had a series of very-good-but-not-quite-great seasons until, when he turned 30, he finally emerged as AARON JUDGE.

Expand full comment
Luke Lea's avatar

Operas were the movies before movies.

Expand full comment
YojimboZatoichi's avatar

"This is true even though Bizet’s Carmen is the second most often staged opera in this country in this century"

In 1915, filmmaker Cecil B. DeMille filmed Carmen, with superstar opera diva Geraldine Ferrar. DeMille included the famous fight in a factory, which, up to that point the Opera never had included. Due in no small part to the 1915 filmed version of Carmen, most or nearly all staged operatic productions of Carmen now include the fight scene.

So basically, Steve's point appears to be that what the French lack in composers they more than make up for in Art and Literature as well. From Jean Fouquet, LeBrun, to Monet and Manet; from

Moliere, Racine, to Balzac, Flaubert, France is definitely amply represented in the visual and verbal arts.

However in the Classical music age Marc-Antoine Charpentier being another example of artistic composers from France.

Expand full comment
questing vole's avatar

Ravel has always been my favorite French composer, largely because I was introduced to his music when it was played in the background while Bo Derek was taking off her clothes in Ten (and I was about ten).

Expand full comment
prosa123's avatar

In a huge heartbreak, Bo Derek was nominated in 2000 for the Worst Actress of the Century award but didn’t win.

Expand full comment
Richard Milhous's avatar

The "Winners" were Sylvester Stallone, actor and Madonna, actress.

Expand full comment
Laurence Jarvik's avatar

Bravo!

Expand full comment
ScarletNumber's avatar

> Bizet’s Carmen is the second most often staged opera in this country in this century

Someone with no familiarity with opera would still instantly recognize the Toreador Song and Habanera; that's how much they are a part of pop culture

Expand full comment
Steve Sailer's avatar

When I saw the preview trailer in 1984 for Rosi's "Carmen" at the downtown movie theater across Michigan Avenue from the Chicago Art Institute, the young audience (who might have been there to see the Talking Heads "Stop Making Sense" concert film) spontaneously clapped along to the the Toreador Song.

Expand full comment
ScarletNumber's avatar

In the second episode of The Simpsons, Bart switched aptitude tests with Martin so everyone thought he was gifted. To encourage his gift his family took him to see Carmen where it goes as you might imagine...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6R7faC9e1s

Expand full comment
Jim Don Bob's avatar

I saw Carmen at the Met in NYC last night with Isabel Leonard and Matthew Pollenzani, both of whom were excellent. I sat in the first row. This is a new production set in a gritty urban town and the toreador is a rodeo rider! Not as good as the previous production which was set is Spain.

Expand full comment
Steve Sailer's avatar

The 1984 movie version was filmed in the exact spots in Spain, like the Seville bullring, that Gustave Dore illustrated and Bizet, who hadn't visited Spain, might well have gotten his conceptions of Spain from.

On the other hand, it can be fun to move a familiar opera to some random place and time that the set and costume designers are really into. For example, POP's version of a Donizetti opera from the early 19th Century was set in a brand new fashionable hotel in Paris in 1960. Why Paris in 1960? It looked like the people who worked on it were really into the look of Paris in 1960, so why not?

Expand full comment
Jim Don Bob's avatar

I do not have any objection to new opera productions being relocated in time and space. I saw Rigolleto in 2019, with Matthew Polenzani and Nadine Sierra, where it was set in what looked like 1960s Mob Las Vegas, and it was fine. Of course, I would pay to see Matthew Polenzani and Nadine Sierra sing the phone book.

And the Met still shows the Franco Zefferelli productions of La Boheme and Turandot, which I think were first done in the 1980s, because they are superb.

The Met spared no expense on scenery in the current production of Carmen. In Act 3, the smugglers' truck has crashed, and on the stage there is a mockup of a truck lying on its side, complete with lights, that must be 35 feet long on a turntable that rotates as the act progresses.

But it didn't feel right to me. And the dance of the cigarette girls now is singers and dancers flailing around in the cargo box of a truck. YMMV.

But thanks for the tip on the filmed version of Carmen.

Expand full comment
Craig in Maine's avatar

I had to look up “lacuna”. I thought it sounded like a rejected Chevrolet model name from the early sixties. I don’t think it was in my “Building Word Power” SAT study guide from 1966.

Steve, the recognized world expert in noticing, could spend a year cataloging cultural lacunas around the world; interesting stuff like why Germans are unable to behave in a ski-lift queue.

Expand full comment
Homer Terence's avatar

Thank you for posting this! I looked up the Ebell organization and it is still in business after 125 years…dedicated to ladies uplift…nice to see more opera in LA…a ray of hope after the Palisades fire…

Expand full comment
Steve Sailer's avatar

I'm wondering if you could make more money in Paris than in other European cities, so classical music tended toward being popular music in France, which meant it wasn't as enduring. Paris in 1800 had more than twice the population of Vienna.

Expand full comment