Both the Leone and Corbucci finales are excellent. However, Tuco is almost a comical figure in "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" so it isn't surprising that Blondie has emptied Tuco's pistol so Tuco is powerless. Van Cleef and Eastwood know the other is their main rival. Tuco is just a sideshow. Funny, I think that "For a Few Dollars More" is the best of the three Leone-Eastwood films. It is tighter and it is joyous when The Colonel(Van Cleef) gets his revenge. Van Cleef and Eastwood are equals although they banter like father and son. "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" is a little long. Twenty minutes could have been cut from it.
I agree 100% that "For a Few Dollars More" was the best of the three. I could watch the scenes with Lee Van Cleef and Klaus Kinski over and over and never get tired.
I'd lean toward Leone's original, though I see your point with Corbucci's riff. I would watch The Good, The Bad and the Ugly with my late Dad as a kid; Eastwood was one of his favorite actors, and he loved that movie. So, nostalgia and filial love likely bias my viewpoint. Derek Leaberry makes a great point about the Eli Wallach character; he's more comic relief than serious threat; but Van Cleef doesn't know Eastwood pre-gamed the stand off, which adds the element of uncertainty Eastwood needs to get him off balance for the end game. The Corbucci stand off does have the great Jack Palance, suddenly realizing at the end that, though he may have shot his adversary, he was the one receiving the fatal wound.
I wouldn’t be all that surprised if the concept of a visual standoff between three interested parties over something had originated in a classic black-and-white comedy like Buster Keaton, the Marx Brothers, or Laurel and Hardy. “There are several scenes in TGTBATU of which direct reference can be found in Buster Keaton films (The General and Our Hospitality)”
Steve, be careful. You have violated the 1st rule of most of the writers and commenters on Substack. You said, "I don't know". That's why I follow you and buy your books. I don't know either.
Are the Sergio Leone spaghetti westerns the most overrated movies of all time? Clint Eastwood as a stoic gunslinger was, of course, brilliant, but the substance of those movies is so boring. I don’t know how anyone can sit through them without falling asleep.
Quentin Tarantino’s movies improved on spaghetti westerns by being actually fun, thought-provoking, and interesting to watch.
Classical music is not the best choice for examples because we don't know what the original performances sounded like. With contemporary music I think it's obvious that originality is swell, every hit song must contain some novel elements, but it's not as important as what you call development. From your other examples, Led Zeppelin is much much much better than Robert Johnson and Howlin' Wolf.
Creating a new musical or literary form from scratch is an amazing achievement and pretty much never can be attributed to a single person. It's super rare. Musical or literary ability is also super rare. The probability of each are not independent but it would still be crazy super duper rare to be both a complete original and also a top musician or writer.
It's only when something is getting popular and everyone wants to get involved that the real talent pool moves to the new form and that's when the great stuff get's produced en mass.
after the peak, when a style is running on fumes and nostalgia, only the pretentious claim the originals were the best. Originality only pleases you the first time (by its nature, it depends on surprise). After you've imbibed twenty years of great rock music your mind loses track of what was first anyway.
I hope I'd have the presence of mind not to meet death wearing a clown nose.
Does anyone read novels older than Pride and Prejudice without being forced to? I'm pretty sure I read (or started) a Fanny Burney novel decades ago, but I can't remember which one.
Don Quixote, Robinson Crusoe, and Tom Jones are perhaps the oldest novels that Americans read. I really enjoyed Tom Jones (1751) in high school, but couldn't get through it when I tried to reread it 10 years ago.
But, yeah, Jane Austen is amazingly popular in this century for her books being 200 years old. The simplest explanation is that she's really good.
That 4th movement is the very embodiment of the word "drive." It transmits overwhelming speed and force. Kleiber's interpretation is phenomenal. My own used to be Furtwängler's in a recording from 1943 with the wartime Berlin Philharmonic. Remarkably more measured, more flowing, but less thrilling.
Hearing the movement puts me in mind of "L. A. Woman", si parva licet componere magnis, because The Doors display a similar sense of force and speed in what I consider their finest track.
For Beethoven's birthday, WGMS in DC in the 70s would always play Leonard Bernstein's recording of all 9 symphonies. The famous parts I heard inexcusably lacked zing, compared to our Georg Solti's, and it lowered my opinion of him ever since. The station should have played different versions with some commentary, but it was lazy--or perhaps knew its audience.
I have come to accept that Steve Sailer's taste in movies is not my own. To suggest that the Corbucci gunfight, with the cheesy cinematography, the terrible acting of Palance, and the ridiculous clown guy, is an improvement over the epic end of "TG,TB,&TU" makes me shake my head in wonderment.
Aaron Haspel: "Good critics do not have good taste. They have articulate, consistent taste for which the reader can correct."
Whatever you’re eating for breakfast, keep doing it.
A great potpourri today. Thanks.
The metal version of Stravinsky's work put me in mind of Laibach. And thus a musicological circle was closed. For me. I think.
Nothing to do with Mexican standoffs or cinema at all. I just think this post's great variety invites all sorts of not-quite-OT commentary!
Both the Leone and Corbucci finales are excellent. However, Tuco is almost a comical figure in "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" so it isn't surprising that Blondie has emptied Tuco's pistol so Tuco is powerless. Van Cleef and Eastwood know the other is their main rival. Tuco is just a sideshow. Funny, I think that "For a Few Dollars More" is the best of the three Leone-Eastwood films. It is tighter and it is joyous when The Colonel(Van Cleef) gets his revenge. Van Cleef and Eastwood are equals although they banter like father and son. "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" is a little long. Twenty minutes could have been cut from it.
"The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" was my Dad's favorite when I was growing up. I thoroughly enjoyed watching it with him.
In the old days, didn't ABC put on "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" every year or so for their Sunday Night movie?
Yes!
I agree 100% that "For a Few Dollars More" was the best of the three. I could watch the scenes with Lee Van Cleef and Klaus Kinski over and over and never get tired.
When Van Cleef lights the match off Kinski's head is hilarious.
He lights the match off Kinski's hump, sir, the hump.
I'd lean toward Leone's original, though I see your point with Corbucci's riff. I would watch The Good, The Bad and the Ugly with my late Dad as a kid; Eastwood was one of his favorite actors, and he loved that movie. So, nostalgia and filial love likely bias my viewpoint. Derek Leaberry makes a great point about the Eli Wallach character; he's more comic relief than serious threat; but Van Cleef doesn't know Eastwood pre-gamed the stand off, which adds the element of uncertainty Eastwood needs to get him off balance for the end game. The Corbucci stand off does have the great Jack Palance, suddenly realizing at the end that, though he may have shot his adversary, he was the one receiving the fatal wound.
I wouldn’t be all that surprised if the concept of a visual standoff between three interested parties over something had originated in a classic black-and-white comedy like Buster Keaton, the Marx Brothers, or Laurel and Hardy. “There are several scenes in TGTBATU of which direct reference can be found in Buster Keaton films (The General and Our Hospitality)”
https://www.tasteofcinema.com/2012/sergio-leone-is-spaghetti-western/
Buster Keaton and the like usually figured out everything a century ago.
Steve, be careful. You have violated the 1st rule of most of the writers and commenters on Substack. You said, "I don't know". That's why I follow you and buy your books. I don't know either.
Are the Sergio Leone spaghetti westerns the most overrated movies of all time? Clint Eastwood as a stoic gunslinger was, of course, brilliant, but the substance of those movies is so boring. I don’t know how anyone can sit through them without falling asleep.
Quentin Tarantino’s movies improved on spaghetti westerns by being actually fun, thought-provoking, and interesting to watch.
Classical music is not the best choice for examples because we don't know what the original performances sounded like. With contemporary music I think it's obvious that originality is swell, every hit song must contain some novel elements, but it's not as important as what you call development. From your other examples, Led Zeppelin is much much much better than Robert Johnson and Howlin' Wolf.
Creating a new musical or literary form from scratch is an amazing achievement and pretty much never can be attributed to a single person. It's super rare. Musical or literary ability is also super rare. The probability of each are not independent but it would still be crazy super duper rare to be both a complete original and also a top musician or writer.
It's only when something is getting popular and everyone wants to get involved that the real talent pool moves to the new form and that's when the great stuff get's produced en mass.
after the peak, when a style is running on fumes and nostalgia, only the pretentious claim the originals were the best. Originality only pleases you the first time (by its nature, it depends on surprise). After you've imbibed twenty years of great rock music your mind loses track of what was first anyway.
I hope I'd have the presence of mind not to meet death wearing a clown nose.
Does anyone read novels older than Pride and Prejudice without being forced to? I'm pretty sure I read (or started) a Fanny Burney novel decades ago, but I can't remember which one.
Don Quixote, Robinson Crusoe, and Tom Jones are perhaps the oldest novels that Americans read. I really enjoyed Tom Jones (1751) in high school, but couldn't get through it when I tried to reread it 10 years ago.
But, yeah, Jane Austen is amazingly popular in this century for her books being 200 years old. The simplest explanation is that she's really good.
That 4th movement is the very embodiment of the word "drive." It transmits overwhelming speed and force. Kleiber's interpretation is phenomenal. My own used to be Furtwängler's in a recording from 1943 with the wartime Berlin Philharmonic. Remarkably more measured, more flowing, but less thrilling.
Hearing the movement puts me in mind of "L. A. Woman", si parva licet componere magnis, because The Doors display a similar sense of force and speed in what I consider their finest track.
For Beethoven's birthday, WGMS in DC in the 70s would always play Leonard Bernstein's recording of all 9 symphonies. The famous parts I heard inexcusably lacked zing, compared to our Georg Solti's, and it lowered my opinion of him ever since. The station should have played different versions with some commentary, but it was lazy--or perhaps knew its audience.
I have come to accept that Steve Sailer's taste in movies is not my own. To suggest that the Corbucci gunfight, with the cheesy cinematography, the terrible acting of Palance, and the ridiculous clown guy, is an improvement over the epic end of "TG,TB,&TU" makes me shake my head in wonderment.
Aaron Haspel: "Good critics do not have good taste. They have articulate, consistent taste for which the reader can correct."
Steve Sailer, sipping chardonnay, chatting with Tim Robbins: "Corbucci's Mexican standoff is just way, way more on the nose." [Tim nods vigorously.]
Tarantino had one in Reservoir Dogs (taken from HKs City on Fire).